Flache Füsse

[JanNL]

Hi All

I desperately hope there is one out there who has a good tip for me. I have very flat and wide foots and I have lost all my trust in the retailers. I have purchased now three boots and still have difficulties. Can anyone recommend some boots?!

Thanks!!!

Jan from the NL

[SkiGirlForLife]

Hi Jan, I guees the best tip anyone can give you is to find a competend bootfitter, either near you or near the town wehere you spend your skiing holidays. Any trips still planed this year?

Wow, three different pairs of boots and all not fitting, that is a whole lot of wasted money!! I can definitely understand that you've lost trust in your retailers!!

Besides, can you specify the problems you have with your current boots?
Most of the time, the problem for people with difficult feet is that they buy their boots way too big. These boots feel comfortable in the shop, but actually only conceal the problems there are. The moment you start skiing, you will slide back and forth and from one edge to the other within your boot. That does not only make the direct input to the skies a whole lot more difficult and inaccurat, but also can cause severe pain to the feet and shins - bruises from rubbing and pressure marks are only two of the most common problems arising from boots bought to big. Rather buy boots that are slightly too small or pinch in one place or another and let a good bootfitter fit the outer shell to your feet. A bootfitter can do amazing things to make a boot fit your feet, but he can do mearly nothing about it if the boot (and here again especially the outer shell) is just too big and/or too wide for your feet.

[carlgustav_1]

custom soles (eg "conformable") as a first step? a GOOD ski shop should be able to supply...

good luck, martin

[finnskier]

Hello Jan & all!

I beleive I have the same problem with wide and low feet as you Jan so I will join in on this thread. Whenever I find a boot that fits in length and width I feel I end up with too much volume on top of the foot.

Thanks to this forum I have some kind of idea what kind of shell-fit I should be looking for although most recommendations are for length only.

If someone here with experience could explain how the shell should be roughly checked for width and height fit I would be very greatful. I read German with very little problems so feel free to answer accordingly.


There are no real bootfitters around here at a decent distance so finding a suitable boot is pretty much up to trying all available models. So far the closest fit for me is a Nordica Beast 10 size 26.5. However I feel I need to overtighten the second buckle (3rd of 4 slots with microadjust fully tightened) in order to get enough hold over the foot. At that point the shell top is flattened a bit and the "schraubstock" syndrome just starts to show. The Head S9 was also a candidate with too much top volume but the higher heel in and the last in the Nordica seem to suite me better. As I understand it, going down to size 26.0 will not give me a different shell but only more stuffing in the liner and the possibly better fit will disappear with time as the liner compresses with use.

A narrower last seems to introduce severe foot pain already in the shop so that is perhaps not a solution for me to get less top volume.

Only wasted my money on one pair of useless boots so far... but the retailer trust is getting lower everytime I'm on the hunt for a fitting pair of ski-boots.

Paul from Finland

[M.H.]

Hi Paul

A way to check if the shell is fitting length- and widewise would be to remove the lining and stepping into just the shell. There should be roughly about 1 cm space around your feet.

As for checking for height I'd just recommende stepping into the shoe (with the lining in) and try to lift ball, instep and heel to check how much space you got above (and if that space is evenly distributed).

If the shoe is just a littlebit to high (evenly), adding a cork sole (could be cut by yourself) may help. If you got to much height mainly above your instep a sole with more arch support could help too (if you got a weaker foot arch), e.g. formthotics, conformable and so on. If it's just above your toes and your heel sits fine, it's should be no reason to worry, adding a little wedge below your toes may support your foot though (as you got a little more tension above your arch then).

If it's just the heel that you can lift, your problem might eventually not be height wise but that you got too much width around your heel.

Generally I'd recommend buying shoes when you go for skiing holidays in the resort there. The reason is, that you are able to respond quicker when the shoe fits "fine" in the shop and you discover problems when skiing. Here most shops in skiing resorts would allow you to change to another pair when you discover problems. And generally you can expect more bootfitting competence in the skiing resorts themselves.

[finnskier]

M.H.

Thank you very much for your input!

In the Nordicas the heel sits firmly and the forefoot has just about the needed space. It is mainly the area above and just in front of my arch that has what I consider too much volume.

Ok on the 1cm all around the foot for shell fit. I have done this on every boot I tried but wasn't sure on the space around & above the foot.

I should probably try to find an arch supporting sole to test my candidate ski-boots with. I assume the foot may appear slightly narrower in the arch area when a supporting sole is used.

I did build a set of flat-bed hard-rubber soles to kill off some volume in my current "useless" Head S9 boots but they were simply and sadly one number too big at size 27.0 (Shell says 27.0/27.5). I think I have been a victim of "shortlasting" when buying them at the salesman's recommendation. I had good toe-contact in front when standing upright etc. and the last felt snug but wide enough. However after some living room breaking in and a few days skiing the liners lost a lot of their initial volume and gained in length. (The 27.0 liner stretched to the 27.5 shell size with some use?)

Off for some more ski-boot fitting... Many thanks again for the help & input!

Paul

[JanNL]

Hi all and thanks for the info and especially to you Antje, for the long post. Antje, of course there are still some plans for the year. Everything… except the shoes is setted up for two racy weeks in Chamonix but I have no clue about the services in the shops there. I remember them as pretty big and rather fancy and commercial.

The issue is indeed the volume on top and when trying shoes I have the tendency to choose the smaller size just because my foot can not fill the volume. But this doesn’t work with skiing boots, because of missing width. As long I leave them rather loose the width seems to be okay but I get no contact with the shoe below the span unless the shoe is really tighten brutally but than the width becomes to small. One day wearing is not a big problem but after three days the pain becomes a killer. It all came up the last two three years after I lost some weight.

Paul, the most suitable shoe I have tried yet is the Tecnica Diablo Spark. It’s rather medium stiff and the flattest of the wider models I have got yet, but still not wide enough. Maybe the Spark works for you?!?

I think I will try the inlets first and make my way to a boot fitter next. Antje, is there a recommendable fitter in your area? Oh dear, I guess this becomes again an investment…

Many thanks again!

[SkiGirlForLife]

I think I will try the inlets first and make my way to a boot fitter next. Antje, is there a recommendable fitter in your area? Oh dear, I guess this becomes again an investment…

Many thanks again!

Hi Jan,

I can relate to your problem now. I have a rather flat but also very narrow foot myself and had to tighten most of the boots I tried up to the last buckle. Thank goodness I didn't listen to the "hundreds" of incompetent retailers that tried to sell me one of these!! Two years ago, after a looong search, I found the Atomic M 10 and it fitted perfectly. Even today, after about 50 days of skiing in this boot, I only tighten the arretation very slightly. When I tried the boot in a shop here in Münster, the people there told me that I was the first person whose feet actually are narrow and flat enough to fit in this boot. Go figure

So, I can recommend this shop "Sportbörse" here in Münster very much. The people there are quite competent, can do some good fitting and also do foaming of boots, which could be a good option for you, don't yu think so?

On the other hand, I can always recommend Johann Leitner in Bichlbach in Austria. Uwe, our webmaster, has written several reports about him. If you'r interested, just go and have a look in the bootfitting-section of the webpage. Leitner is not "quite" next door to either of us, but a trip to his shop and I would bet almost anything that with his help, you will get the perfect boot for your feet. Some weeks ago we had a carving-ski.de carving camp in the area and many of the people went to Leitner and bought new boots or got their old ones fittet properly. He had a solution for literarly all of our problems. He and his son also did a presentation on boots and bootfitting for the group and it was all so very interesting and logical. If noone else does, these two really do know what they are doing!!! When I need new boots (hopefully not so soon!), I will now make sure to get them there in Bichlbach, even if I have to travel quite a bit to get there. But the expenses paid and time spent to get there are noting compared to the money you waste in vain and the frustration and pain you have to endure if you buy boots that don't fit!

Edit : If you consider going there, make sure to call in advance and get an appointment, so they can take their time with you.

Edit 2: They also do great and uniquely fitted inlets at the Leitner shop.

[JanNL]

Hi Antje,

Again many thanks for your long reply. I thought about foaming as well but I remember a comment saying that foaming does not help if volume on top of the foot is the issue however, you might be interested in the following…

I went back to my beloved store today to ask for the inlets Martin has mentioned. The sales person briefly listened to the issue and proposed to cushion the inner shoe on the upper side with PU patches right underneath the span and so he did. With these cushions the feel got slightly more “volume” but frankly speaking it was just awful. No natural feeling at all and I have no words for the lacking comfort other than my impression of being nailed to the shoes.

So I made my decision to try again all the shoes on the market and went to allrounder in the Skihalle in Neuss to work me trough their truly impressive assortment. No shoe was better than my Tecnica Diablo. Whenever the width was sufficient the “overvolume” became proportionally larger as well. So I discussed the matter with the people there and they asked me to bring my Tecnicas. The surprising result was a comment on the earlier “Thermovervormung” and the guy just said let me see what I can do.

In a nutshell. It seems the first “Thermovervormung” never worked out and after we did it again today the shoe sits like a second skin. Unbelievable. He mentioned the heat might have not been sufficient the first time and as a matter of fact, the difference in deformation of the inner shoe is already noticeable visually. Before he had a rather smooth and brand new appearance and now looks rather worrying deformed I tried the new feeling of course on the spot and the result is truly amazing, I really feel connected to the ski… Way better than before.

Such experiences are pretty useless. Sometimes it takes some time but when you find the right persons for giving you the right advise keep them in mind and pay them well, they are priceless…

PS Antje, what you are saying about Leitner is addictive. You have made me thinking…

[SkiGirlForLife]

In a nutshell. It seems the first “Thermovervormung” never worked out and after we did it again today the shoe sits like a second skin. Unbelievable. He mentioned the heat might have not been sufficient the first time and as a matter of fact, the difference in deformation of the inner shoe is already noticeable visually. Before he had a rather smooth and brand new appearance and now looks rather worrying deformed I tried the new feeling of course on the spot and the result is truly amazing, I really feel connected to the ski… Way better than before.

Hi Jan,

I have never seen a Thermoverformung in real life, so can't say much about it. But what makes me wondering is that what you are forming is only the inner shoe, right? So the inner shoe models to your feet, but the missing volume above your span must still be there. After all, the inner shoe didn't get any bigger, it just fits around your feet now. And the shell didn't get any smaller. So the volume is not between your feet and the inner shoe any more, but must now be between the inner shoe and the shell, right? Maybe you don't notice the problems that badly any more. However, I could very well imagine that after a few weeks of skiing in your boots and after the stuffing of the inner shoe has collapsed a bit, the problems might come back. Of course I keep my fingers crossed for you that it does not happen!! It was just the first thing that sprang to my mind while reading your post...

PS Antje, what you are saying about Leitner is addictive. You have made me thinking…

yeah well, you know, I don't think he would have suggested the thing about the PU patches